[Watchdogs] Austin Water Rates
CBMassmann at aol.com
CBMassmann at aol.com
Wed May 20 10:41:30 CDT 2009
Just because some other utility is using a given billing strategy doesn't
make it correct. If a water line or a pump breaks why should the higher user
pay disproportionately more to have it repaired? Why should the high
user pay more of the office expense for billing and collecting?
In a message dated 5/20/2009 10:26:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
stlouis_98 at hotmail.com writes:
More on Austin City Water Rates:
Under 2000 Gallons: 98 cents per 1000 gallons
Over 15000 Gallons: $7.63 per 1000 gallons
The rates per 1000 gallons increase at 2000 gallons, 9000 gallons and
15000 gallons.
> From: watchdogs-request at pec4u.org
> Subject: Watchdogs Digest, Vol 13, Issue 15
> To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:00:13 -0500
>
> Send Watchdogs mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Watchdogs digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Rewarding Conservation (alfred stlouis)
> 2. Re: Rewarding Conservation (Paul Langston)
> 3. Austin Energy (Williams, Mark (San Antonio))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:40:15 -0500
> From: alfred stlouis <stlouis_98 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Watchdogs] Rewarding Conservation
> To: <watchdogs at pec4u.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY105-W2818366A2A741C813509CDFA5A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
> I reviewed the rate structure of the City of Austin water utility: it is
an inverted rate structure, and the big residential user, the water hogs,
pay about 7 times more per gallon than the most conservative user of water,
users who use 2000 gallons or less per month. This type of rate structure
rewards conservation with cheaper rates and it penalizes the heavy user
with higher costs. Al
>
> > From: watchdogs-request at pec4u.org
> > Subject: Watchdogs Digest, Vol 13, Issue 14
> > To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:00:11 -0500
> >
> > Send Watchdogs mailing list submissions to
> > watchdogs at pec4u.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > watchdogs-request at pec4u.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > watchdogs-owner at pec4u.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Watchdogs digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. As President Reagan would say "There you go again" (Mark Williams)
> > 2. Re: increasing the (effective) rate as we cut our power usage
> > (Mike M)
> > 3. Sufficiently Schooled! (Mark Williams)
> > 4. Re: Sufficiently Schooled! (Bill Christensen)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:53:08 -0500
> > From: "Mark Williams" <skyewill at gvtc.com>
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] As President Reagan would say "There you go
> > again"
> > To: "'Paul Langston'" <langston at zeecon.com>, <joesummy at moment.net>,
> > "'Racis, Michael'" <michael.racis at peci.com>, "'Paul Hilgers'"
> > <paul.hilgers at peci.com>
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Message-ID: <E6B51C1B8DD748A29455DDDA3E787733 at FAMILYDESKTOP>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > As President Reagan would say, "There you go again". The rate does not
> > change when you conserve power. Every one pays the same rate for
> > electricity and the same meter fee for the same class of customer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is this so hard for you to figure out?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org [mailto:watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Paul Langston
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:19 AM
> > To: joesummy at moment.net; Racis, Michael; Paul Hilgers
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign"
> > pressrelease
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Joe: Thanks for fowarding the Press Release of May 15, 2009.
> >
> >
> >
> > I assume that your new partners, TexasIsHot, are aware that under the
> > present rate schedules, PEC shows its appreciation for conserving
power by
> > increasing the rate as we cut our power usage.
> >
> > Regards, Paul Langston
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: joesummy at moment.net
> >
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:39 AM
> >
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign" press
release
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please consider the attached PEC press release. The release highlights
> > PEC's new conservation partnership with TexasIsHot. readers.
> >
> >
> >
> > The press release has been formatted as MS Word document.
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
<http://pec4u.org/pipermail/watchdogs/attachments/20090517/1918b402/attachment-0001.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:23:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Mike M <mikemcgmail-bucks at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] increasing the (effective) rate as we cut our
> > power usage
> > To: 'Paul Langston' <langston at zeecon.com>, watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Message-ID: <918721.78845.qm at web82608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Paul,
> > I see Mark, the new apologist for the PEC old guard, is insufficiently
schooled in the impact, ?on the ratepayer, of fixed costs and variable
costs.? Of course, the rate for electricity is the variable cost, i.e., use
more, pay more.? But what he denies is the impact of the fixed cost, the
meter fee.? The fee bears an inversely proportional impact on the ratepayer.?
The conserver of energy feels a greater burden from the fee than does the
heavy user.
> > That's why there has been so much interest here in the proposed change
to the fee.
> > Mike
> >
> > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Mark Williams <skyewill at gvtc.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Mark Williams <skyewill at gvtc.com>
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] As President Reagan would say "There you go again"
> > To: "'Paul Langston'" <langston at zeecon.com>, joesummy at moment.net,
"'Racis, Michael'" <michael.racis at peci.com>, "'Paul Hilgers'"
<paul.hilgers at peci.com>
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 7:53 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul
> > ?
> > As President Reagan would say, ?There you go again?.? The rate does
not change when you conserve power.? Every one pays the same rate for
electricity and the same meter fee for the same class of customer.
> > ?
> > Why is this so hard for you to figure out?
> > ?
> > Mark
> > ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org [mailto:watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org]
On Behalf Of Paul Langston
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:19 AM
> > To: joesummy at moment.net; Racis, Michael; Paul Hilgers
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign"
pressrelease
> > ?
> >
> > Dear Joe:? Thanks for fowarding the Press Release of May 15, 2009.
> >
> > ?
> >
> > I assume that your new partners, TexasIsHot, are aware that under the
present rate schedules, PEC shows its appreciation for conserving power by
increasing the rate as we cut our?power usage.
> >
> > Regards, Paul Langston
> >
> > ?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: joesummy at moment.net
> >
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:39 AM
> >
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign" press
release
> >
> > ?
> >
> > Please consider the attached PEC press release. The release highlights
> > PEC's new conservation partnership with TexasIsHot.? readers.
> >
> >
> >
> > The press release has been formatted as MS Word document.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > ?_______________________________________________
> > Watchdogs mailing list
> > Watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> > NEW INSTRUCTIONS: To remove yourself from this list, please send an
email to
> > watchdogs-request at pec4u.org with UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line. Or
go to
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> > and follow the instructions at the bottom of the page.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:41:55 -0500
> > From: "Mark Williams" <skyewill at gvtc.com>
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] Sufficiently Schooled!
> > To: <mikemcgmail-bucks at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Message-ID: <95B79C6353EF48A085711D493001363F at FAMILYDESKTOP>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > >>From far me supporting the old guard. I can wait until all of them
are
> > gone.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want the true economic impact to the customer, you would
support the
> > $39.90 monthly meter fee and the lower per KWH power cost. Anything
else is
> > sending the wrong economic signal.
> >
> >
> >
> > Support the $39.90 per month meter fee and the operating costs of PEC
would
> > drop more quickly because everyone would be on the board of directors
for
> > cost control now!
> >
> >
> >
> > The conserver of energy needs to feel the correct cost, not some
subsidized
> > cost.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am more than sufficiently schooled in the impact as I used to run the
> > economic and planning department of a very large company. Now I run
part of
> > the marketing department for the company and in 2008, I managed over
$3.8
> > billion in sales. Yes that is right BILLION.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the interest here is for the heavy consumer to subsidize the
low
> > consumer. Nothing more.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org [mailto:watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Mike M
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:24 PM
> > To: 'Paul Langston'; watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] increasing the (effective) rate as we cut our
> > powerusage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > I see Mark, the new apologist for the PEC old guard, is insufficiently
> > schooled in the impact, on the ratepayer, of fixed costs and variable
> > costs. Of course, the rate for electricity is the variable cost, i.e.,
use
> > more, pay more. But what he denies is the impact of the fixed cost, the
> > meter fee. The fee bears an inversely proportional impact on the
ratepayer.
> > The conserver of energy feels a greater burden from the fee than does
the
> > heavy user.
> >
> > That's why there has been so much interest here in the proposed change
to
> > the fee.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Mark Williams <skyewill at gvtc.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Mark Williams <skyewill at gvtc.com>
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] As President Reagan would say "There you go again"
> > To: "'Paul Langston'" <langston at zeecon.com>, joesummy at moment.net,
"'Racis,
> > Michael'" <michael.racis at peci.com>, "'Paul Hilgers'"
<paul.hilgers at peci.com>
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 7:53 PM
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > As President Reagan would say, "There you go again". The rate does not
> > change when you conserve power. Every one pays the same rate for
> > electricity and the same meter fee for the same class of customer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is this so hard for you to figure out?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org [mailto:watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Paul Langston
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:19 AM
> > To: joesummy at moment.net; Racis, Michael; Paul Hilgers
> > Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign"
> > pressrelease
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Joe: Thanks for fowarding the Press Release of May 15, 2009.
> >
> >
> >
> > I assume that your new partners, TexasIsHot, are aware that under the
> > present rate schedules, PEC shows its appreciation for conserving
power by
> > increasing the rate as we cut our power usage.
> >
> > Regards, Paul Langston
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: <mailto:joesummy at moment.net> joesummy at moment.net
> >
> > Cc: <mailto:watchdogs at pec4u.org> watchdogs at pec4u.org
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:39 AM
> >
> > Subject: [Watchdogs] "PEC partners with TexasIsHot campaign" press
release
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please consider the attached PEC press release. The release highlights
> > PEC's new conservation partnership with TexasIsHot. readers.
> >
> >
> >
> > The press release has been formatted as MS Word document.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Watchdogs mailing list
> > Watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> > NEW INSTRUCTIONS: To remove yourself from this list, please send an
email to
> > watchdogs-request at pec4u.org with UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line. Or
go to
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> > and follow the instructions at the bottom of the page.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
<http://pec4u.org/pipermail/watchdogs/attachments/20090517/20f0d68c/attachment-0001.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 23:49:59 -0500
> > From: Bill Christensen <billc_lists at greenbuilder.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Sufficiently Schooled!
> > To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > Message-ID: <a06230922c6369400a16f@[192.168.50.3]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> >
> > At 8:41 PM -0500 5/17/09, Mark Williams wrote:
> > >From far me supporting the old guard. I can wait until all of them
are gone.
> > >
> > >If you want the true economic impact to the customer, you would
> > >support the $39.90 monthly meter fee and the lower per KWH power
> > >cost. Anything else is sending the wrong economic signal.
> >
> > Actually, the *best* economic signal - and one that many here have
> > been trying to drive home - is to push to reduce the high expense
> > load which accounts for that high monthly per-meter cost, not to roll
> > over and accept $39.90/month as what it *should* cost.
> >
> > The real meat of the question is to find out why it's so high
> > compared to other coops. Is it because of the size or density of the
> > service area? Is it because upper management is paid too much? Is
> > it because the operation is running inefficiently or wasting
> > resources?
> >
> > >
> > >Support the $39.90 per month meter fee and the operating costs of
> > >PEC would drop more quickly because everyone would be on the board
> > >of directors for cost control now!
> >
> > Though true, I don't think that would be a wise approach. The
> > pitchforks are, like, all pointy and the torches pollute the air ;-)
> >
> > >
> > >The conserver of energy needs to feel the correct cost, not some
> > >subsidized cost.
> >
> > However, there's nothing wrong in my book with penalizing the
> > flagrant non-conserver with stepped-up rates.
> >
> > Hand in hand with that, there should be a weatherization/energy
> > conservation team who can help those with extremely inefficient homes
> > identify and fix the worst problems for a reasonable fee. Those fees
> > could be spread out over the projected payback period in cases of
> > true economic hardship, so that the consumer wouldn't actually pay
> > any more than they would have without the conservation measures, but
> > would require less energy (especially important during peak) and once
> > paid back would be paying reduced bills.
> >
> > >
> > >I think the interest here is for the heavy consumer to subsidize the
> > >low consumer. Nothing more.
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps. Or perhaps it's in making PEC look at where the big leaks
> > are and plugging them, saving all of us money and making for a more
> > efficient company overall.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bill Christensen
> > <http://greenbuilder.com/contact/>
> >
> > Green Building Professionals Directory:
<http://directory.greenbuilder.com>
> > Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/>
> > Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/>
> > Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/>
> > Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Watchdogs mailing list
> > Watchdogs at pec4u.org
> > http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
> >
> >
> > End of Watchdogs Digest, Vol 13, Issue 14
> > *****************************************
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:46:43 -0500
> From: "Paul Langston" <langston at zeecon.com>
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Rewarding Conservation
> To: "alfred stlouis" <stlouis_98 at hotmail.com>, <watchdogs at pec4u.org>
> Message-ID: <3DE43725E97F49EFAFC8695E2EF5A5DB at langston>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Dear Al: Same with the Austin Energy. I have a condo in Austin but I am
not there often. The rate for those who use 500KWH or less is 8.4 cents per
KWH. Austin Energy helps with conservation. But, what do they know? PEC
charges $73.40 for that 500 KWH and that averages at 14.68 cents per KWH.
Compare 8.4 cents to 14.68 cents.
> Austin Energy charges only $6.00 fee for the meter. All the info is on
the bill for the customer to see. PEC is fast changing from a rural co-op to
an urban co-op. Old habits have to change.
> Sincerely, Paul Langston
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alfred stlouis
> To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:40 PM
> Subject: [Watchdogs] Rewarding Conservation
>
>
> I reviewed the rate structure of the City of Austin water utility: it is
an inverted rate structure, and the big residential user, the water hogs,
pay about 7 times more per gallon than the most conservative user of water,
users who use 2000 gallons or less per month. This type of rate structure
rewards conservation with cheaper rates and it penalizes the heavy user with
higher costs. Al
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
<http://pec4u.org/pipermail/watchdogs/attachments/20090519/f20c5f03/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:54:33 -0500
> From: "Williams, Mark (San Antonio)" <Mark.Williams at valero.com>
> Subject: [Watchdogs] Austin Energy
> To: "watchdogs at pec4u.org" <watchdogs at pec4u.org>
> Message-ID:
> <90F88E7E0E63FA4DA61B879BB0F3B0360493FDD7DA at MSSAVS80.corp.valero.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Doesn't Austin Energy have a nuke in their power portfolio?
>
>
>
> From: watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org [mailto:watchdogs-bounces at pec4u.org]
On Behalf Of Paul Langston
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:47 AM
> To: alfred stlouis; watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Rewarding Conservation
>
> Dear Al: Same with the Austin Energy. I have a condo in Austin but I am
not there often. The rate for those who use 500KWH or less is 8.4 cents per
KWH. Austin Energy helps with conservation. But, what do they know? PEC
charges $73.40 for that 500 KWH and that averages at 14.68 cents per KWH.
Compare 8.4 cents to 14.68 cents.
> Austin Energy charges only $6.00 fee for the meter. All the info is on
the bill for the customer to see. PEC is fast changing from a rural co-op to
an urban co-op. Old habits have to change.
> Sincerely, Paul Langston
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alfred stlouis<mailto:stlouis_98 at hotmail.com>
> To: watchdogs at pec4u.org<mailto:watchdogs at pec4u.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:40 PM
> Subject: [Watchdogs] Rewarding Conservation
>
> I reviewed the rate structure of the City of Austin water utility: it is
an inverted rate structure, and the big residential user, the water hogs,
pay about 7 times more per gallon than the most conservative user of water,
users who use 2000 gallons or less per month. This type of rate structure
rewards conservation with cheaper rates and it penalizes the heavy user
with higher costs. Al
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Watchdogs mailing list
> Watchdogs at pec4u.org
> http://pec4u.org/mailman/listinfo/watchdogs
>
>
> End of Watchdogs Digest, Vol 13, Issue 15
> *****************************************
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