[Watchdogs] The Board Salaries and the Staff Salaries

Wed Sep 15 12:17:53 CDT 2010

I would like to see the Board set the example for the COOP by voting to cut their own Salary by a modest amount, say 5%, and then work to reduce the many overpaid staff salaries.  Too many staff are making over $200K per year!  Al

> From: watchdogs-request at pec4u.org
> Subject: Watchdogs Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8
> To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:00:03 -0500
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Compensation for Board members. (Pat Scott)
> 2. Re: Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore) (Naomi Byrne)
> 3. Re: Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore) (Naomi Byrne)
> 4. Re: Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> (tbuckle at austin.rr.com)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Pat Scott <sanleanna at yahoo.com>
> To: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board members.
> Message-ID: <769923.72104.qm at web112006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thank you . Mr. Moore for a very illuminating explanation of the job the Directors now do. I think most of us were still under the impression?it was still as before maybe not rubber stamping, but going along.?Given? workload listed - for now - the compensation question can wait until the business is running?a lot more efficiently.
> ?Thanks for your?insight and comments.
> Pat Scott
> District 7 Resident??
> Pat Scott(semi retired)
> "Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights." 
> Thomas Jefferson
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> ???1. Re: Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:35:33 -0500
> From: "Naomi Byrne" <naomiw at austin.rr.com>
> To: <watchdogs at pec4u.org>
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> Message-ID: <009c01cb543b$9f4712f0$ddd538d0$@rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Doug - 
> 
> When I read your posting, I had to respond. 
> 
> I understand everything you are saying - yes, it's hard work, and yes, it's
> time consuming. But do I think that board members should be compensated for
> a voluntary position? I have to say emphatically "No".
> 
> Every Board will eventually run into tough times, requiring its board
> members to work hard and long hours to keep the entity going. However, that
> doesn't justify paying someone for their service. Once PEC is humming along,
> will the Board cut their pay? Probably not. Pay shouldn't be based on how
> hard the work may be at one point in time, because (hopefully) if you do
> your job as board members, it will get better. 
> 
> Second - it's not a full-time job nor should it be. If the Board is spending
> that much time managing the managers, then the board is overstepping its
> bounds. You mentioned that some managers took too long to complete tasks
> assigned by the Board - I can only hope and assume that the Board was
> working through their ONE employee, Juan Garza (now his replacement), rather
> than directly managing other staff. And the board has chosen to spend "long
> hours reading, analyzing and writing papers". Want more help? Recruit
> committee members from the general PEC population. There are PLENTY
> intelligent and conscientious folks who I am sure would love to assist, and
> do so for free. Heck - Joe and Milton write stuff all the time, and he's
> just an "observer". Or do what the Board has done - fire the CEO and hire
> one that does what you want, when you want it. 
> 
> Third - I don't believe for a second that we should have to compensate a
> board for making a "tough decision". That's what they are there for, period.
> Can make the tough calls without change in your pocket? Then you don't need
> to be there. We obviously did not lack for any volunteers, as evident during
> the last election cycles. 
> 
> Now, none of this is directed specifically towards your wife or the other
> board members. But I am suspect when I have to pay folks to do what is a
> volunteer job. Great - you decreased compensation and removed health
> insurance, but to me, that's not enough. Pay them travel time, mileage, a
> stipend for attending the meetings, and reimbursement for receipted supplies
> used in the course of their Board work. But quit paying them an annual
> salary - if they want to work for PEC, then they need to apply and get on
> the other side of the table. It was the good ol' boys who started the crap
> of compensation - let's NOT use their failings as an excuse to continue
> their bad habits. 
> 
> 
> Naomi Byrne
> Leander, TX 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:57:34 -0500
> From: "Naomi Byrne" <naomiw at austin.rr.com>
> To: "'Mary Ann Raesener'" <marinctx at nctv.com>
> Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> Message-ID: <00fb01cb5460$39a35470$ace9fd50$@rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Mary - 
> 
> I may have misspoken, but I didn't misunderstand. What the PEC Directors
> earn, whether you call it a salary, stipend, flat fee, compensation - it is
> money paid for their service. Last I recall, Directors got $1500 per month
> flat fee, plus fees for each meeting. Is this wrong? If I've missed another
> decrease in compensation, I'll eat my hat - no problem. But, based on the
> last few watchdog emails, it seems that the Directors still get $1500 per
> month flat fee, plus $500 - $750 per meeting they attend. If you are only on
> one committee and have one meeting a month, you are still pulling down at
> least $2,750 per month ($33,000 per year). That's a salary, no matter what
> you call it. 
> 
> The way I see it now, if I am a Director, I could realistically attend one
> committee meeting for three hours and do three hours of prep, and get paid
> over $80.00 per hour. If I attended just one regular meeting for three hours
> and did three hours of prep, that's another $125.00 per hour. Neither of
> these includes the $1500 flat fee I get just for being a Director, even if I
> don't attend a meeting, so I could NOT read my board packets, NOT go to a
> meeting, NOT participate in a discussion and still get $1500 per month.
> (Actually, this is better than a salary - I don't have to do any work to get
> paid.) 
> 
> Seriously, though - I never said that the Board members should not receive
> compensation for their time and travel, but this is NOT THEIR JOB.
> Compensation has to be reasonable, and getting over $27,000 for just being
> in a voluntary (albeit elected) board position is not reasonable. And the
> argument that this would limit the pool of candidates doesn't hold water -
> look at how many companies, entities, municipalities, etc... have minimal or
> no stipends and have excellent Board members with the knowledge and the
> skills to oversee and manage an agency, and look at how many companies,
> entities, municipalities, etc... PAY stipends and still have Board members
> that do stupid things. It's about the people, not how much you have to pay
> to get them there. 
> 
> Naomi Byrne
> Leander, TX
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Ann Raesener [mailto:marinctx at nctv.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:07 PM
> To: 'Naomi Byrne'
> Subject: RE: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> 
> Naomi appears to have misunderstood. PEC Board members do not get a salary.
> They get a flat fee for attending each Board meeting and a lesser amount for
> committee meetings, plus documented expenses for mileage. The argument by
> Fraser and others is that they should receive nothing but should donate
> their time (currently 30+ hours per week) without any compensation at all -
> for the honor of serving. That would limit the pool of candidates - if they
> understand the job requirements.
> 
> Mary Ann Raesener
> Meadowlakes, TX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 4:31:26 +0000
> From: <tbuckle at austin.rr.com>
> To: 'Mary Ann Raesener' <marinctx at nctv.com>, Naomi Byrne
> <naomiw at austin.rr.com>
> Cc: watchdogs at pec4u.org
> Subject: Re: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> Message-ID: <20100915043127.286B9.285365.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Guys, This is a tough one. I have been on numerous Boards of Directors of non-profit corporations, on a city council, on the board of an appraisal district, and on a number of professional committees of my profession....and have never been paid one cent for that service. But, I have never had to be responsible for an entity that had more than 1 to 2% of the revenues as the PEC. You really need to consider that this Board is really a Board of a major corporation...not a local entity that does not require that much time or has responsibilities that if they screwed up, could do much damage. Remember the damage done to the PEC by a Board that did not supervise, inquire, or work. I do not know of a major city that does not pay a decent wage to the members of its city council. I think the reason is pretty clear as to why they do.
> 
> ---- Naomi Byrne <naomiw at austin.rr.com> wrote: 
> > Mary - 
> > 
> > I may have misspoken, but I didn't misunderstand. What the PEC Directors
> > earn, whether you call it a salary, stipend, flat fee, compensation - it is
> > money paid for their service. Last I recall, Directors got $1500 per month
> > flat fee, plus fees for each meeting. Is this wrong? If I've missed another
> > decrease in compensation, I'll eat my hat - no problem. But, based on the
> > last few watchdog emails, it seems that the Directors still get $1500 per
> > month flat fee, plus $500 - $750 per meeting they attend. If you are only on
> > one committee and have one meeting a month, you are still pulling down at
> > least $2,750 per month ($33,000 per year). That's a salary, no matter what
> > you call it. 
> > 
> > The way I see it now, if I am a Director, I could realistically attend one
> > committee meeting for three hours and do three hours of prep, and get paid
> > over $80.00 per hour. If I attended just one regular meeting for three hours
> > and did three hours of prep, that's another $125.00 per hour. Neither of
> > these includes the $1500 flat fee I get just for being a Director, even if I
> > don't attend a meeting, so I could NOT read my board packets, NOT go to a
> > meeting, NOT participate in a discussion and still get $1500 per month.
> > (Actually, this is better than a salary - I don't have to do any work to get
> > paid.) 
> > 
> > Seriously, though - I never said that the Board members should not receive
> > compensation for their time and travel, but this is NOT THEIR JOB.
> > Compensation has to be reasonable, and getting over $27,000 for just being
> > in a voluntary (albeit elected) board position is not reasonable. And the
> > argument that this would limit the pool of candidates doesn't hold water -
> > look at how many companies, entities, municipalities, etc... have minimal or
> > no stipends and have excellent Board members with the knowledge and the
> > skills to oversee and manage an agency, and look at how many companies,
> > entities, municipalities, etc... PAY stipends and still have Board members
> > that do stupid things. It's about the people, not how much you have to pay
> > to get them there. 
> > 
> > Naomi Byrne
> > Leander, TX
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mary Ann Raesener [mailto:marinctx at nctv.com] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:07 PM
> > To: 'Naomi Byrne'
> > Subject: RE: [Watchdogs] Compensation for Board Members (Doug Moore)
> > 
> > Naomi appears to have misunderstood. PEC Board members do not get a salary.
> > They get a flat fee for attending each Board meeting and a lesser amount for
> > committee meetings, plus documented expenses for mileage. The argument by
> > Fraser and others is that they should receive nothing but should donate
> > their time (currently 30+ hours per week) without any compensation at all -
> > for the honor of serving. That would limit the pool of candidates - if they
> > understand the job requirements.
> > 
> > Mary Ann Raesener
> > Meadowlakes, TX
> > 
> > 
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